Question and Answer Session
Dr John Chipman, Director-General and Chief Executive, IISS
I now want to open the debate and what I intend to do is have four or five comments and questions on what you have heard, and then I want to invite His Royal Highness Prince Turki Bin Mohammed Bin Saud to say a few words officially about the Saudi perspective on this, because we know that His Royal Highness Prince Saud Al Faisal very much wanted to come to this event and has endorsed some remarks that we will be distributing formally, and I will invite Prince Turki in four or five minutes to give a summary of those thoughts in a moment. But what I would like to do is take a few points and then those remarks and then we will come back to the panel.
Odeh Aburdene, Senior Advisor, CT Capital Trust Group; IISS Member
My question is to Sheikh Muhammad Al Sabah. Your Highness, you spoke about the change that has taken place, especially in the last 75 years. I think we have had two major changes: one, the lethality of weapons, which is a negative change; the positive change has been in the area of scientific innovation and technological innovation. These innovations have created millions of jobs and a great deal of wealth in Asia, in the US and in Germany. Now the big challenge to the Arab region is how to create jobs. You have 350 million Arabs today; in 20 years, it is estimated you will have 700 million Arabs. So the job creation is a major challenge. Ending poverty is a major challenge. To address these challenges, I think that the Arab world has to begin by innovating in the technology area and in the science area, and that begins with education and ideas. Now, looking ahead 20‑30 years from now, do you see the day when there will be an Arab Bill Gates, when there will be an Arab Apple, when there will be an Arab Google? Ultimately, that is how wealth has been created in the West; in the last 50 years, most of the jobs have been created by innovative small companies. I would like your comments on that.
Peter MacKay, Minister of National Defence, Canada
Mr Rudd, with respect to Australia’s involvement in the ISAF/NATO mission, there has been some consternation over the years about the ability of Australia and other non‑NATO countries having a voice in the mission and being sufficiently represented in the discussion and the planning of how the military mission has played out in Afghanistan. I would just like your reflections on that.
I would also like to echo a sentiment expressed in a previous dialogue by Sheik Abdullah that the countries of the region, who would be the biggest beneficiaries of a peaceful Afghanistan, could and should become more engaged in the conflict in some form. Finally, I would like your comment on the issue of human trafficking, illegal migration, which has not featured prominently in the discussions about security so far. I know, however, that Australia has particular challenges vis-à-vis illegal migration. I feel that is relevant to both global and regional security.
Wafaa Bassim, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Egypt
My question is mainly for Sheik Dr Muhammad Al Sabah Al Sabah. Given the multiple and complex challenges in the region – social, political and economic - what solutions do you foresee that will address all of these challenges?
Dr Mohammed Hossein Hafezian, Professor of Political Science, Islamic Azad University, Iran
I would like to ask HE Dr Al Sabah a question. As you know, President Ahmadinejad has described the WikiLeaks documents concerning Iran and the GCC as a conspiracy designed by the United States to destroy the friendly relations between the two sides of the Persian Gulf. Kuwait did not encourage the United States to resort to military action. Could the reason be that Kuwait is the only GCC country to experience a disastrous war, and it is all too aware of the devastating effects of war in the region? Do you think that Kuwait, given its close ties with the United States, can convince the United States to adopt a more conciliatory position to avoid a destructive new war in the region…?
Second, on the relations between Kuwait and Iraq, I would like to know if you are trying to conclude a lasting and sustainable treaty with Iraq, so that any possible, future, border dispute can be prevented forever.
HRH Prince Naef Bin Ahmed Bin Abdulaziz Al Saud, Advisor to HRH the Crown Prince Sultan, Saudi Arabia
[As translated from Arabic: Your Excellency, Sheikh Khalid bin Ahmed bin Mohamed Al Khalifa, Minister of Foreign Affairs of our sister-country the Kingdom of Bahrain, Your Royal Highnesses, Your Excellencies, Ladies and Gentlemen, on behalf of His Royal Highness Prince Saud al-Faisal, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, who was prevented by previous engagements from participating here, I take pleasure in expressing my thanks and appreciation for the kind invitation extended by our sister-country the Kingdom of Bahrain and by the International Institute for Strategic Studies to participate in the work of this conference which must be considered one of the most important forums for discussing the most important security issues in the Middle East region.
I would like to commend the good organisation of the present session and the important topics which it has covered, in addition to the kind and friendly reception with which everyone met. By the way, copies of my speech will be distributed to participants in view of time constraints, and I will concentrate as much as possible on the main points.
Firstly, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is extremely interested in security in the Gulf in view of the great influence this has on achieving international security and stability. The Kingdom's efforts are directed at promoting the security and stability of the region in a number of crucial points and roles by collaborating in critical international issues and crises which have an influence on the region and the world. It also attempts to achieve this through its role aimed at realising peace and security and promoting regional efforts and the states aiming at realising this.
For this reason, the Kingdom is of the opinion that the Arab states of the Gulf Co-operation Council together with Iraq, Yemen and Iran have a greater interest than others in the security and in the stability of the security of the Gulf region in addition to the international aspect of the security framework of the region which necessitates the positive participation of the states which are permanent members of the Security Council and states which play an important role in the international arena from the standpoint that international guarantees cannot be given on an individual basis. In this context, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has always affirmed the importance of the security and stability of Iraq and of promoting its national unity and territorial integrity and preserving its independence and sovereignty and of not intervening in any way in its internal affairs.
We as the leadership and people of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia see Iraq as a sister-country, a respected neighbour and a fundamental and authentic part of our Arab-Islamic nation, and we see all the sons of its people in the way a brother sees his brother, without any sectarian, factional or racial categorisation. We have the same stance towards all its constituent elements and political movements. This resulted in the initiative taken by the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, inviting all Iraqi parties and leaders to meet in Riyadh under the auspices of the Arab League to try to achieve national settlements and agreement amongst them including the welfare and future of Iraq.
Secondly, within this framework, the Kingdom is also concerned about the security and stability of Yemen in view of the importance of Yemen within the region and because this is an extension of the national security of the countries of the region, including the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Yemeni-Saudi relations are characterised by the fact that they are close brotherly relations, and there is constant coordination and consultations between the leadership of the two sister-countries. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has promoted efforts by Yemen to combat terrorism and to oppose it, and this has had a positive influence on confronting these attempts which threaten the security and stability of the region.
On this basis, the Kingdom urges the international community to grant economic and development aid to Yemen and to support its efforts to overcome its economic and security problems by means of offering support and aid together with the commitment to preserve Yemen's unity and stability and not to intervene in its affairs, in the conviction that its security is our security, and that its stability secures our stability, and its growth and well-being is the concern of us all. We all hope that the conference of the Friends of Yemen Group which the Kingdom will be hosting in Riyadh at the beginning of next year will be able to make an important contribution in offering support and aid to Yemen.
As regards making the Middle East region free of weapons of mass destruction, the Kingdom is one of the countries calling for the removal of weapons of mass destruction of all types and forms. On this basis, it has taken clear positions in its foreign policy expressed in its backing and support for all international efforts aimed at limiting the spread of weapons of mass destruction at both global and regional level.
In this context, the Kingdom affirms the right of all states to gain nuclear technology and programmes for peaceful purposes. Hence, the Iranian nuclear dossier has become an additional burden over and above the challenges and threats we face. Thus we are all called upon to deal with this challenge responsibly and to pursue diplomatic solutions in a manner which guarantees the right of states to possess atomic energy for peaceful purposes in accordance with the criteria of the International Atomic Energy Agency so that this does not represent a danger to the security and safety of the region. Within the framework of implementing security in the region, Israel with its nuclear capabilities represents a serious danger to the security and stability of the region and should be required to submit all its nuclear plants and arsenals to inspection by the Atomic Energy Agency so that the existence of weapons might not be a danger to the security and safety of the region. We call on the international community to put pressure on Israel in view of the importance of its signing up to the agreements on banning the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
The Middle East region is in greater need than at any time in the past of realising security and stability. This region has suffered much in the way of catastrophes and crises, and there can be no doubt that our peoples deserve to benefit from these financial and technological potentials to raise the standard of their peoples and develop their programmes for growth instead of expending them on programmes which are to be considered a source of danger and not a factor in stability and security.
In relation to combating terrorism and extremism, the phenomenon of terrorism is a great challenge to the international community. For this reason, it will be helpful to intensify and coordinate international efforts to resist this dangerous phenomenon. The Kingdom has undertaken many creative efforts to confront the terrorist phenomenon. At the kind invitation of the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz, the Kingdom hosted the international counter-terrorism conference convened in Riyadh in 2005 which published a number of important resolutions and recommendations, the most prominent being the initiative of the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques to establish an international counter-terrorism centre under the auspices of the United Nations.
In the light of the confusion and diversity of values and ideas which the world is witnessing and the spread of the spirit of hatred, the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz, as a contribution to spreading the values of dialogue, tolerance and moderation and building up relations of cooperation and peace, all of which will help to confront challenges, incomprehension and narrow horizons, took the initiative by issuing a sincere invitation to pursue the path of dialogue and mutual understanding between the followers of all religions and cultures. He convened a meeting at Mecca which was attended by a large number of scholars and thinkers, and this was followed by another meeting in Madrid with the participation of a number of followers of world religions and cultures under the kind patronage of the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques and His Majesty, the King of Spain. These efforts continued when a high-level meeting of the General Assembly of the United Nations took place at the end of 2008, attended by a number of state leaders who showed their support and affirmation for this initiative, thus helping in the global spread of the spirit of dialogue and tolerance.
As regards piracy, the Kingdom has time and again expressed its concern about the phenomenon of piracy and its negative effects on the safety and free movement of international shipping and its consequences for goods transportation traffic between the continents of the world and on international commerce in general. The Kingdom is of the opinion that the phenomenon of piracy calls for concerted international efforts to combat it. It is incumbent on the countries of the region and the major states to cooperate amongst themselves to take effective measures and work together to combat this phenomenon in the light of the resolutions taken by the Security Council. The Kingdom participates with several naval units in resisting this phenomenon in the region.
Support for the political process in Somalia to implement security and stability is the best way to deal with this phenomenon and other dangerous phenomena. Thank you, Mr Chairman.]
Hayfa Ali Al Mattar, Office of the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Bahrain
My question is for Sheikh Muhammad Al Sabah. Kuwait is well known for branding its foreign policy when it heads the GCC. In 2003 it was economic diplomacy. What would the brand be these last few years? Also, on social media and foreign policy for Mr Rudd, it is WikiLeaks now and more leaks tomorrow; what is the solution? Thank you.
Kevin Rudd
On Afghanistan I have a couple of points. My first is that Australia is the largest non-NATO contributor to Afghanistan and has been for some time. We have had an ongoing problem with our friends in NATO about being full participants in integrated decision-making mechanisms of NATO. I believe that this began to be resolved in Lisbon. It has not been completely resolved. I think that there is a very simple principle: if NATO wants us to have skin in the game, then we have to be part and parcel of the whole decision-making process. Otherwise, we will not be there. It is pretty blunt. In fact, I do not think we are unique in that respect. I have been speaking to my friends in Sweden and elsewhere - you are encountering similar difficulties. I would think that in terms of the fact that NATO prospectively operates out of theatre in a range of scenarios in the future, we are going to have to be much more flexible with our friends headquartered in Brussels than perhaps we might have been before. That is, if we are in the game then we must be part of the decision making in the game as well.
Secondly, the other part of your question, in terms of wider participation in the Afghanistan operation by other regional states. Frankly, I have been quite encouraged by the number of Gulf states and other countries from the Islamic world who are contributing in one way or another to the enterprise in Afghanistan. I think that this should not be underestimated. It is quite important that this occurs. Also, if we flip to the other end of Afghanistan, there is the role being played by some of the countries of Central Asia, also from the Islamic community, in bringing about the wider economic development of Afghanistan. I think that in addition, this should not be underrated. Therefore our principle, like yours, is that the more engagement by countries of the region and particularly Islamic countries is all to be welcomed.
The third question concerned illegal migration. Our response to this is pretty simple: this is a global problem. If you speak to any of our friends in Europe about what happened across the Mediterranean or speak to our friends in America about what happens in Central America and the challenges it poses to the body politic there, if you look at what happens with the people movements of various countries in wider, let us call it, Central and South Asia including Afghanistan, it challenges many countries across the region and the world. There are three responses. One is that globally the UNHCR (United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees) increasingly needs to examine its own systems of dealing with global pressures in particular states. Under the convention, there are only 16 resettlement countries in the world; only 16 of us who actually undertake systematic resettlement responsibilities from refugee centres around the world. Given that we have 12 million people who are internationally displaced persons, this number has to increase; everyone has to begin shouldering more of the burden because otherwise, in time, the system will start to fall apart.
Secondly, if we [are] dealing with unauthorised people movements, we need to be dealing with the full chain, from source country through to transit countries through to target countries. Source countries are those that are the source of instability and what gives rise to people exiting; transit countries, in terms of making things difficult for people – smugglers - to operate; and of course destination countries having fair but firm principles and laws in place for dealing with those who arrive. Regarding transit countries, we in Australia have been benefited by the great cooperation from Malaysia, Indonesia and others through a process called the Bali Process.
Finally, moving on to WikiLeaks. I think that our friend asked the question what the answer is; you seemed to have a smile on your face as you asked it. I think that the answer is not to take it all too seriously. If we were to take out the history of international diplomacy, there have been times when diplomatic secrets have been leaked in one form or the other. These have created problems for a while, and we should all agree amongst ourselves, as was inferred by a considerable observation by the chairman of this august body in his question to the Secretary of State last night. This is a particularly large number, but the challenges are real in international diplomacy right now, and we can either choose to be preoccupied with that which has come out already or the thousands which have yet to come out and which will all be embarrassing in one form or another, [or] all agree that we have a collective problem and get on with it. Those are the real challenges of today. Secondly, we need to look at the system-specific problems which countries may have in the control of classified information. Thank you.
Sheikh Muhammad Al Sabah
I would like to reply in Arabic, if you permit.
[As translated from Arabic: The question relating to a restoration was a good and excellent question because it asked, "Is it possible that we might see another Bill Gates in the Arab World?" This is an opportunity to recall the contributions of Arab-Muslim scientists in olden times. Let us recall Al Khwarizmi and Al Hassan ibn Al Haytham and Avicenna, and to be more precise, I mention the language used in computers, so-called binary codes, which are based on the two numbers 1 and 0. I think you are all aware that the Arabs were the ones to discover the number zero, so if Arab scientists were able to discover zero, when computers appeared and Bill Gates came along, a basis was already in existence. This means that a restoration is possible, for the matter of science and knowledge is not limited to one people, race or religion but is a human value which is transmitted through the centuries. All we need is an opportunity for us in the Arab World to acquire the assets of science and knowledge, the source of which is to be found at present in the West.
As to the question asked by our brother from Iran, this is a serious question. Let me speak openly and clearly about Kuwait's stance on the Iranian nuclear issue. We are greatly concerned about this programme for two reasons. The first reason relates to a concern for the environment, that is, the environmental impact of the Bou Shahr reactor on Kuwait in view of its proximity to Kuwait. Kuwait is the closest population centre to this reactor, and as we know, this reactor is in a region which has experienced a large number of earthquakes in past years, and it depends on the technology of older generations, not on that of modern generations. For this reason, we have a legitimate concern from an environmental point of view: it is the possibility of radiation escaping from this reactor and seeping into the waters of the Gulf, and as you know, the source of Kuwait's drinking water is distilling the waters of the Gulf. If the waters of the Gulf were to be contaminated, the danger to Kuwait would be an existential risk. That is the one aspect. The second aspect is what makes this programme a source of concern to us. Contrary to what the United States say or what others say, this is what the Atomic Energy Agency says. The last report by the Atomic Energy Agency, which is a non-political agency concerned with technical aspects, and everyone here are members, including our brothers from the Islamic Republic of Iran - the last report was not reassuring. The Atomic Energy Agency is conscious of a lack of clarity and complete transparency relating to this matter. As long as the Agency shows a lack of satisfaction as regards this Iranian nuclear programme, there will be a lack of satisfaction in the region and, I believe, in the world as a whole. For this reason, we always stress both in our secret and open meetings with our brothers in Iran that they should deal with the Atomic Energy Agency in all clarity and complete transparency, because Iran has the right to have atomic power for peaceful purposes, and no one denies this, but it must inform the world of the true intentions behind this programme.
Thank you very much.]
Dr John Chipman
Thank you very much. Kevin Rudd, I believe you wanted just 60 seconds of encouragement and inspiration here?
Kevin Rudd
I do not know if it is encouragement or inspiration. It is just a fact and it goes to the question that asked where the Arab Bill Gates and Microsoft are. I will give you one microcosm: Australia. We have half a million Arab Australians and their contribution to the Australian economy is outstanding. They are building small, medium and large businesses; they are increasingly found on the boards of major Australian corporations; they make a great contribution to our economy. I believe that what this says is that, as a matter of principle, once our friends in the Arab world - where as I said before the population is rising from 350 million to 700 million - are freed from what I might call the encumbrances of historical and old security concerns and fully able to participate in the economic opportunities of the region and the world, then I believe that we will see a vastly different reality worldwide. It is to dispense with these old security problems, seize the opportunities of the moment and in a secure environment free our Arab brothers and sisters to fully participate in the global economy. If one microcosm of that is what Arab Australians do in our part of the world, it is a stupendously successful success story.
Dr John Chipman
I think those were inspiring words. Thank you very much indeed Kevin Rudd, and thank you very much Your Highness Sheikh Muhammad Al Sabah. We have been very privileged to have in this concluding plenary session a conversation with two national leaders of real substance. We thank them for their words, their invitation to us to think carefully about how the new security issues can be addressed in adaptable frameworks, and we thank them for their endorsement of this adaptable framework of the Manama Dialogue. At the conclusion of today’s proceedings let me again thank the Kingdom of Bahrain, Sheikh Salman Bin Hamad for an extraordinary cooperation and great hospitality. We thank you very much for today and your participation. Thank you very much indeed.
