Lord Malloch Brown
We have had a wide and very interesting range of views expressed from the podium, now it is your turn.
Participant
A lot of academic work – including that completed at the World Bank in the Development Economic Group – looked at the challenges the challenges extractive-based economies and we are in the middle of a region rich with oil. My question to all panellists, and perhaps your Lordship may wish to comment as well given your extensive experience, is what lessons have we learnt from the studies that have been completed across the world and how do you think you can internalise these experiences and lessons in managing your own economies. Thank you.
Participant
I have two questions for Sheik Mohammed. First, in his capacity as chairman of the Development Committee, there was major concern at the beginning of the crisis that world trade would be subject to protectionism which didn’t materialise. What did materialise, however, was the lack of financing of international trade. This was in the minds of the heads of the G20 states. I believe they have located $50 billion to finance trade, but we have not heard anything about how these funds have been utilised.
My second question is in regards to the Your Excellency’s comment regarding the subsidy of energy. The area of subsidising energy is a murky one, especially in dealing with energy producers. Energy is the comparative advantage that these countries have and they have to utilise it to the fullest in order to reach diversification. That is one aspect. The other aspect is if a part of energy is not exportable – especially when it is used not as energy but as an input – how do you identify subsidies? I think the numbers of economic development in the Arab world show that the growth rate is higher than population growth. That is one point from an economic growth point of view. The other aspect is regarding resources. Up until now, if we looked at oil, we have seen that the discovered reserve is growing faster than population growth so I think that statement is not correct, though I do thank you for the highlights you made regarding the serious efforts of the Kuwaiti government to plan ahead. Thank you.
Dr Atsushi Seike, President, Keio University
In order to field economic growth, particularly in developing countries, it is extremely important for you to invest in human capital. There is no doubt that this is key. I am glad to hear that many presenters today have understood the importance of human capital investment. I appreciate that. However, I still feel that most investment – particularly in developing countries – has not gone to human capital, but to tangible assets like factories, shopping centres, power generating plants and transport systems and so on. This is because if you invest in such tangible assets, you can get very quick results and returns within a certain period of time. However in the case of human capital investment, it can take years to see a real result. Therefore, human capital investment – particularly education – tended to be undervalued, particularly in the countries with rich natural resources; the countries that do not necessarily depend on the development of human capital. Therefore, I am just curious to know in what way you would be able to overcome these tendencies and I would appreciate in any of you would respond. Thank you.
Silvina Vatnick, President, Center for Financial Stability
The recent and financial crisis has unveiled some of the weaknesses in a number of developed economies. In that context and given the ongoing tightening of the fiscal accounts in the developed world, I would like to ask the panel how they envision the impact on development assistance to the developing world? I ask if there may be a need to revisit the approach of financing development?
Professor Jean-Pierre Lehmann. Director, The Evian Group; Professor, International Political Economy, International Institute for Management Development
My question is what lessons, if any, we should be drawing from what is happening currently in Thailand. The rationale for that is the idea that growth generates security is not necessarily true. Otaviano Canuto spoke about post-conflict states but Thailand is not one. It was a poster child of globalisation and has been enjoying a considerable amount of growth. My feeling is that this and the issues of inequality and exclusion are not something that is not sufficiently recognised – even in your own presentations. I see what is happening in Thailand as a trend, not just an event. For example, we heard about the high rising economies of Asia, the Naxelites are quite present in many provinces in India, I believe there is a degree of political risk in China because of its inequalities. Again, my question is what lessons, if any, can we learn from Thailand.
Sh Ahmed Bin Mohammed Al Khalifa
On the particular two questions that were asked of me in my role as DC chair. I think that when we look at what the World Bank has done with over 100 billion of finance – 175 million in the IMF – I think that is money that has gone to countries that needed it. The G20 emphasised supporting countries. When we were going through the worst part of the crisis I definitely think I saw a huge strain on providing finance for trade and other projects. I think the situation is much better now, but we all know it is a bumpy road. Things are definitely improving and people are finding finance to be easier than it used to be before. Is total lending within the western economies – Europe, for example – increasing? I do not think so – I believe it is still shrinking. However, what is important is that a trade is happening, it is growing, and we are dealing with the crisis as it metamorphoses into different regions and issues. We were dealing with areas that required governments to spend a lot of money, and now we are dealing with sovereign debt which is another reflection of how this crisis is evolving.
On the second question, subsidy for energy distorts the cost of energy. I am aware of the debate that asks at what price we should call energy. Is it market price? Or price at source? That is an interesting debate because price at source is usually much lower for countries that actually have the energy as opposed to calculating the subsidy from market price. My thinking is more in line with how much you actually pay versus the possible alternatives within each country. It is important for a country to understand the true cost of its energy because it will help the economy become more efficient. Through subsidy, we can make our economy efficient for a while, however we cannot do this for the long-term. We need to make sure that the economy operates to its best using the most efficient sources and cost of energy. Because based on that factories, power stations and homes will be built. It has to take that aspect into consideration.
On the point of human capital, Bahrain has invested quite lot in human capital and the whole gist of labour reform is to have a fee on foreign workers working in Bahrain which goes into a training fund - that is managed by the private sector and government – that will go into training into people on the ground to increase productivity. What we have found is that Bahrainis were actually taking the better jobs, but at the other end of the scale Bahrainis were always competing with people who were coming in from other countries who were willing to accept less. This put a lot of downward pressure on the salaries at the other end. By having a 10 dinar charge every month, we noticed that we now have a fund that is spent on training and productivity increases. We notice that with this, I think so far $185 - $190 million has been spent and 19,000 people have actually benefitted from these programmes. We can see that the capacity on the ground, in different sectors, is actually increasing.
Otaviano Canuto
Let me address of the extracted resources and whether it may be a blessing or a curse and what the conditions are for their fate to be defined. We dedicate a lot of attention and observation to this at the World Bank. Let me just refer to three aspects. One of them is inevitably Dutch disease, which is a problem if the extractive industry is not capable of generating jobs directly or indirectly. The right solution to this is to work on the determinants of cost of lack of competitiveness in the other sectors and not attempt to artificially curb the tendency. The second aspect is fundamental. It is to treat the resource as natural assets, which means that over time the use of the resource must be accompanied by investments in the creation of other assets that will replace the natural assets in the long term. These may include human capital, but not only. We use a rule of thumb that states if you treat the natural resource as a natural wealth, the ideal is never to consume more than the correspondent of the income generated by the asset. This is, of course, an abstract rule. It is hard to be concretely implemented but it is important to highlight so that those responsible for policy making in the country are aware of the exhaustible nature of the use of that asset over time. The third aspect superior to the others in determining the curse or blessing is governance because of the risks of rent-seeking behaviour and accommodation that have been referred to in one of the questions. We are deeply concerned with the impact of fiscal crisis on the flow of aid. We share an upbeat long-term view that Professor Cooper expressed this morning regarding the US economy. However, a terrible and looming fiscal landscape is hanging over all the advanced countries and this may bring some bad news in the very short-term. Hopefully not.
Finally, on Thailand. It is not post-conflict, but it illustrates what the point I was referring to: the need to have in place perceptions of fairness and inclusion. It does not suffice, in itself, to have individually either law enforcement or economic growth. You have to have growth and with this perception that things are fairly distributed with inclusion. Perhaps the fragility of exclusivity in regimes seen as unfair has increased in our current time because of global aspirations. This is good. However, we are fully on board with you – regardless of any statement I make here about Thailand, I can say is that the perception of fairness and inclusion has come to the fore everywhere in the world.
Lord Malloch Brown
I want to push you a little harder because I thought that was such an important question. Is your research showing that inequality is a bigger driver of insecurity than poverty? If that is the case and you have Asia that is growing at 8%, 9%, 10% a year, if during that period inequalities are actually getting exacerbated then would it be reasonable to project that there is going to be a lot more insecurity in Asia not despite of, but because of its getting richer.
Otaviano Canuto
Controlling other variables. Urbanisation matters for instance. Inequality, in rural contexts, is often less explosive than it is in urban settings where family bonds are broken and citizens are exposed to inequality on a more frequent basis. It is clear that one has to take other variables into account. Certainly inequality is becoming as important as levels of poverty themselves.
Dr Adel Abdalla Al Wuqayan
There were two questions that really captured my attention. The first was the statement that the growth of the Arab population is more than or less than the economic growth. I will start with the GCC countries. The GGC countries are a single-commodity economy. Most of our growth is not actually because of the production capacity, but more related to an increase in prices. Our business model is very simple. We extract oil at the source where it is very cheap – at the international market it is expensive – and the premium is actually what we are getting as an income. This is very dangerous for the GCC countries in the long run. We understand that we are depleting our natural resources, but also have much more anticipation of future living the same sort of life that we are living at the moment. At the same time we are moving ahead on the value chain of the downstream operations or the upstream operations. It is not really something that is sustainable in the long run. Secondly, we are not dealing with a competitive advantage; we are dealing with a combative advantage. As you all know, combative advantages are created naturally, but competitive advantages are made by human interventions, patterns, capacities and abilities that are superior to other countries. In real terms, we are not in a good position to argue that the current status is ideal for us.
The second question that is interesting is human capital and the importance of the human knowledge economy in fostering quality educational standards to ensure that our employment and people are competitive in the marketplace. The Kuwait plan allocates more than 65% of their policies towards human capital, and we are truly dealing with the inadequacies in our learning and teaching system, high education and research. We are also dealing with issues relating to the environment and how the labour market could contribute to the transformation of industry. We have a very strong need to improve our education system and invest more in human capital. This is the impetus for any growth engine later down the road.
Geoffrey Tantum, Director, Gulf Consultancy Services; IISS Member
My question is to the whole panel, including perhaps the Chairman, given his background in the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP). Sheikh Ahmed spoke of the need to apply international standards, especially to developing economies facing the toughest challenges, and Dr Al Wuqayan spoke of the need to respect human rights. There can be few developing economies facing tougher challenges than those of the Palestine Authority and the community of Gaza, given the adverse conditions deliberately imposed there by the occupying Israeli power. In the face of these difficulties, how do you see these economies building, developing and coping in the future, especially towards security? What actions are your states taking, especially Kuwait and Bahrain, to help them achieve that?
Dr Mohammed Noman Galal, Advisor for International Strategic Studies and Dialogue of Civilizations, Bahrain Centre for Studies and Research
I have two questions, the first of which is to the Honourable Minister of Finance of Bahrain. Sir, you have spoken about the economy and reform of labour, but there is another side of reform related to education. So far, the experience of private universities is not giving good results and a good image to Bahrain. Could you elaborate on that point? The second question is related to the distinguished Vice President of the World Bank. Sir, you mentioned the reduction of poverty. However, as far as this issue is concerned, we have noted an increase, not a decrease, of poverty. There was a request from the G20 and other financial institutions for the World Bank and for these institutions to reform. Could you be so kind as to enlighten us on this matter?
Alison Smale, Executive Editor, International Herald Tribune; IISS Council Member
I too was very struck by the comment on the perceptions of justice and inclusion. You addressed it a little at the previous discussion, but I would like to take it further. Do you not think this is an opportunity to make a link between all countries of the world? In developed countries, we are very much gaining a sense of injustice and exclusion. Rather than always talking about the knowledge economy and investing in human capital, could we not make it more concrete and ask what we need to do to combine humans and technology? We have not talked very specifically about the internet and other means of communication that could facilitate that.
Oksana Antonenko, Senior Fellow for Russia and Eurasia, IISS
I have a question to Mr Canuto. Thank you very much for your comprehensive diagnosis of the problem. We very much look forward to the report that you advertised, which is being issued by the World Bank. Can you discuss the policy prescriptions accompanying this report? How can the World Bank and other international actors sustain the interests of the international community in dealing with violence and the post‑conflict environment? I totally agree with you that this area has not been given much attention. In conflict prevention, all the evidence and research shows that economic factors are most effective. Maybe we should pay less attention to trying to apply economic factors to bring about conflict resolution, because a number of recent studies indicate there is a low success rate from trying to apply economic independence to resolve conflicts, although it is very effective to prevent conflicts. What can the World Bank do to encourage that?
Participant
On the question of job creation and economic growth, we have talked about capital and human capital. In the Arab region, one area can produce thousands of jobs. I am talking about venture capital. Over the last 60 years in the US, thousands or even millions of jobs were created by venture capitalist entrepreneurs, who were able to fund themselves, because you have a culture of risk‑taking and people willing to risk their capital on people and on ideas. How can we create a culture of venture capital in the Arab region? How can we promote risk‑taking? In the future, will we ever see an Arab Bill Gates, Google or Silicon Valley? I have a comment for Dr Chipman: maybe at the next conference we can devote a session to venture capital opportunities and how to promote them.
Professor Wang Yong, Director, Center for International Political Economy, Peking University, China
As some responses to the questions addressed by the panellists, especially the call for new systems, I would like to raise the factor of regionalism or regional cooperation in dealing with the impact of a global crisis. My question is: how do the World Bank and the GCC assess the role of regionalism in this regard? I think it is a very interesting point that, before this round of crises, the UN Conference on Trade and Development, in a development report, warned of the risks of deeper integration with developed economies by striking free trade agreement (FTA) deals. I think it is a very interesting point. In this regard, East Asia has set quite good examples. China, Japan, Korea and ASEAN successfully push further forward the idea of monetary cooperation based on the currency swap, etc. I want to know more about the position of GCC and Latin America on this.
Daniel Price, Partner, Sidley Austin LLP; former Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Advisor for International Economic Affairs, US
I want to return to the issue of trade. A number of communities have come from the floor and podium suggesting that protectionism has not been as bad as people expected. While that is true, I think it is important not to lose sight of the facts. The facts are that almost 200 protectionist measures, in the form of raising tariffs, imposing import quotas, giving export subsidies and prohibiting exports have been undertaken since the G20 first promised not to take protectionist measures. True, it has not been as bad as it was after the First World War. On the other hand, there is still a substantial distance to go. It is not a question of whether these measures violate the WTO or not; most do not. They are trade‑restrictive nonetheless and the worst victim of these measures is trade between developing countries, because that is where the growth was. I agree very much with Sheikh Ahmed that it is not enough, but is good, that the G20 is eschewing protectionism. It is not enough to simply say that we will not be protectionist; the G20 must give impetus to further trade liberalisation, as the Kingdom of Bahrain in fact did by concluding an FTA.
Participant
My question is to Vice President Canuto. I am returning to your point about the violence in Colombia and the fact that you feel that violence needs to be dealt with on a regional basis. In the case of Colombia, how do you handle it if you cannot make the other countries in the region work together? Whose obligation is it to facilitate transnational support for that kind of cooperation in order to resolve an issue?
Xan Smiley, Middle East and Africa Editor, The Economist
I would like to ask the panel or somebody on it, perhaps Mr Canuto, to say a few words about prospects for sub‑Saharan Africa. There is a feeling that little of Africa was hit by the world turmoil, except for countries such as South Africa, possibly Nigeria and one or two very dependent on commodities such as Angola and Botswana. The rest were not as badly hit which, in one sense, is a good thing but, in another, could be very bad if rich countries reduce their aid. As a quick rider to that, which addresses Mr Price’s point among others, how do you feel the argument is progressing that free trade is more important for poor countries, particularly in Africa, than aid?
Participant
Mr Chairman, I have been listening through the day and in this session in particular to how we are performing quite well given the stabilisation of the world economy, as a result of the actions of the G20, which has suffered from consecutive crises since 2007. My analysis would be that we are not doing as much in terms of reforming and having the global institutions we need to deal with the globalised challenges we are facing, which have become clearer as a result of the economic and financial crisis. This is spilling over into European countries and developed economies. I do not think we have reached the bottom of this; we are at the early stages of unravelling many parts of the current system. The reason I am saying that is because I have a feeling of business as usual and that many of the big ideas for reform have stumbled in discussions over the last few years. We have not seen many of these reforms. Even the one concrete step taken, which was the reform of the World Bank Group, was below expectations, at least of many developed countries.
I subscribe to what Mr Wang said recently about regionalism being a more realistic way of dealing with regional issues and trying to find solutions, as global institutions may not be able to react as quickly as regional institutions. It would be a big mistake to continue to hope that only a few countries around the world would come up with the solutions to these globalised problems. Unless we really take a step back to see how we can reform universal institutions to match the challenges we are seeing internationally, we will definitely meet more problems as we try to solve some of these issues. I do not want to speak about the low‑hanging fruit, which is the Doha Round, which everybody has talked about as being stalled for a long time. There are more difficult issues about climate change, development and the green economy, which everyone talks about although nobody understands what it means in practice. Without global institutions that are effective and able to act more quickly on the ground than we have seen in the past, it will be very difficult to see us coming out of the cycle of crisis that the world has been seeing. This is not only financial; it also concerns energy and food. There have been many crises. There is a tendency to see this happening again in coming years.
Sh Ahmed Bin Mohammed Al Khalifa
We grew up seeing the Palestinian problem and the suffering of the Palestinian people. As people of the Arab world, we do what we can, whether on the international scene or in supporting the Palestinians. We do everything we can to ensure we show them we are in support. The peace initiative of Saudi Arabia that was adopted by the Arab Summit was a very good step taken, which was not taken a few years back. We continue to have hope that, one day, we will be able to resolve this conflict, but it is also painful to a lot of people and a source of a lot more anxiety in many more ways than one, in this part of the world.
Yes, we have educational reform in Bahrain. It is very important because, like many other countries, we need to keep up a level of best‑practice education with what the market really holds. Are we dealing with this challenge head on? Yes. I mentioned earlier, when I first started talking about Bahrain, about consensus‑building in our political system. When we do something now, we do it in a very noisy way, because we want everybody to contribute. Education reform is part of that. The first steps to produce education reform is to produce reports by an independent body that evaluates the scores of universities, setting out what is best practice and holding a standard that institutions actually have to meet. That standard and that public process are major steps in education reform.
The issue of justice and inclusion is important. It is not enough to have economic growth, which is why, in Bahrain, we started with political reform before economic. We see that the role and empowerment of women in our society as very important. Women were always there with us, but we broke that glass ceiling to promotion. We now have two ladies in the cabinet with us. Access to technology, education and healthcare, and allowing people to better themselves, are all items included as part of justice and inclusion. Giving people a right to a voice in the political process is very important.
I remember that, when I was Governor of the Central Bank, we licensed the first venture capital bank in Bahrain. It is a small bank, but it does good work. It is more important to see that, in the 1970s when the oil boom came, all the money went through Bahrain back into the West. This time around, we see that money has stayed in the region and supported a lot of projects within the region. The ability and understanding of institutions in this region is better at understanding how to manage money, reinvest within the region, build institutions here and invest in projects that are here to stay. Even though we are going through a slower period, the amount of investment going on in this region is going to continue and grow. We will see our economies grow further.
Am I worried about seeing a Bahraini or GCC Bill Gates? I think an emphasis on productivity is more important, and an emphasis on creating the right institutions that can compete regionally. Last night at dinner we heard how Indian companies are now looking outside India. I want to see the day where companies working in Bahrain and operating in the GCC are looking beyond that and competing on a global front. We have some; we need a lot more.
By repeating that not much has happened with protectionism, we are sending a message that we need less protectionism. I think it important to note that not many negative steps have been taken, but it is also important to emphasise that trade is very important to the world. I agree with you on that.
On the issue of reform and business as usual, when we look at our region we need to work through the process going on around the round. I mentioned earlier that I am lucky enough from being the Development Committee (DC) Chair to sit on the G20 and see the work that it does. There is serious work happening on the ground now. We want to be part of that process, even though I mentioned we are part of the G186. We feel that that process is important to all of us. If that process does not materialise and there is not that significant push after dealing with the crisis to see the challenges facing us in the future, we will all have to revert to regional solutions. I am not in favour of that, but it will come if we cannot build consensus on international systems. We all, within our own jurisdictions, countries and regions, have our own challenges, but we would much rather apply an international system. It would be much easier for businesses to understand it, as they do business across many regions around the world but, if it does not come, you will see regions and different parts of the world doing more. As I said earlier, I believe there is serious work being done right now.
Otaviano Canuto
If one takes out the conflict‑affected zones and fragile states, it is not true that poverty reduction has not been successful. On the contrary, since 2000, the number of poor people living below $2 a day has decreased substantially, even taking out case of China. The question is to learn how this successful has been successful in such a variegated range of countries. That is why for reform of international financial institutions, particularly in the case of the World Bank, I propose that the yardstick should not only be capital. Capital shares matter of course, but it is also not really a matter of attitude. The Bank today, and I can say this because in other incarnations I was not at the World Bank, is less arrogant, less top‑down and less North/South. It has realised that the best thing it has to do is to learn how to be a humming bird and learned with experience her and there, South/North, and so on that this is the yardstick. I can affirm that the bank has changed substantially and clients are noticing that.
Of course it is too early to give policy prescriptions but certainly the bank will no longer see violence as something to be treated as a compartmentalised phenomenon. That will push the bank to learn to work with other institutions; an integrated approach will be necessary. We will certainly keep the focus after formal peace settlements. This is not when our task is complete. On the contrary it is when the challenge starts. We will step up our advocacy role at the transnational level for the need to have this integrated cross‑country. Violence can no longer be tackled on an international base and there needs to be a focus on violence prevention. That leads me to the essence of how to deal with such situations. The lady made a reference to economic measures. I would like to draw your attention to the fact that when one talks about the perception of unfairness and exclusion sometimes it is not even an economic matter. Sometimes it is a functioning of the loss system and the justice system. It is ethical discrimination and son. On social inclusion in itself, the case of Medeline in Columbia is a good one. I am talking about the city, not Columbia as a country. The fact is that the essence for the revitalisation was not simply the occupation of the space by the military, but also creati0n of access to mass-transportation – metro lines going up the hill, urbanisation of collective space, and the establishment by local residents on the hills of being the watchers themselves so as to avoid trafficking creeping in again. This kind of social inclusion, which involves those directly affected by conflict is important, because that is the only way to succeed in settling non-violence in the long-term.
On trade, the reference to protectionism quoted that it all comes from something related to the World Bank and other institutions - the global alert. That reveals our strong preference for advocacy for trade. We share the concerns over South/South protectionism because we have been calling that export lead growth version 2.0 associated with the South/South trade and guess what? The areas of South/South Trade with a number of measures of compensation and so on are beginning to grow, so that is really something we need to keep our eyes on. On sub-Saharan Africa, it is true that the resistance to the crisis impact has surprised many analysts. Importantly, this has to do with the fact that we had relief in some of these countries and it was accompanied by the establishment of sound macroeconomic frameworks and this is paying off now in the resistance some of these countries have demonstrated. This is a good example of how aid and trade or aid and development are not contradictory. On the contrary – it is important not to speak of aid for trade. However, as aid was accompanied to the sub-Saharan African countries, in the form of that relief or otherwise, by negotiations for the establishment of sound macroeconomic frameworks, these countries have coped reasonably well with crisis. Aid has enhanced their capacity to respond to it. We do not see trade and aid as substitutes for each other.
Dr Adel Abdalla Al Wuqayan
I am going to respond to the very important question related to venture capital and how you can promote SMEs in the region. My opinion is that before we even go into venture capital, we have to understand one major obstacle that is preventing big companies from participating in a lot of projects. That is the credit crunch. They are riddled with toxic assets and cannot afford a lot of financing, and especially as the government is announcing a lot of projects, they have a hard time getting those finances. I think that first of all, governments may provide lifelines of credit to the companies so they are able to execute these projects.
Secondly, I would like to ask how you can promote SMEs where governments and public sectors of countries are crowding out the market? They are providing subsidised surfaces by which the economics of any project would not be profitable if the situation continued. Hence, we need to become more and more open and allow the privatisation to take place gradually. We also have to understand the cultural impediment of becoming an Entrepreneur: to have the Bill Gates of our own in a GCC country. A lot of people would like to go to secure government jobs as the climate is very much easier for them and compensation is almost guaranteed, hence there is no incentive to change. However, there is no hunger under the belt that provides the motivation to excel or find other ways to become your own boss. Without addressing cultural impediments and barriers to investment, especially in SMEs, I do not believe it will be possible to a groundswell in an institution – and to be frank, I think that as the population grows and as more people are trying to grab the limited resources that hunger will grow. I am sure we will see some examples of that.
The last comment is how we can empower students in the classes to become owners of their own business? I think that in the Gulf Countries we have been becoming very good consumers, with a very good retail structure. However, are we in the field of producing? That is a major challenge and we have already seen that it places a large burden on the reservoir of foreign currencies and we do have to look again at our consumption habits in order to make sure that we are not really wasting the scarce non-renewable resources that we are extracting. Thank you.
Lord Malloch Brown
Thank you all for you contributions. As head of UNDP, I at one point commissioned and had to support the Arab Human Development Reports, an extremely controversial, but I think important, set of reports. Listening to this afternoon’s discussion I am reminded of their three central lessons: inclusion, education and good governance. If you get those right, you translate wealth into human capital and real national progress. Whether or not it is creating role a decent role in society for women or creating Bill Gates, it is seeding the ground in the same way so that a society is one of laws. That is critical. I believe that the application of this goes much further than this region and we have heard references to many other parts of the world today. I think it has been an extremely rich discussion about these rich building blocks of what makes societies and the world where individuals as well as nations can thrive. Thank you all very much indeed.
